Shop Mobile More Submit  Join Login
Science Works by AmericanDreaming Science Works by AmericanDreaming
In a way, relativists make religious fundamentalists, young Earth creationists, and biblical literalists seem almost reasonable by comparison, because while the latter believes things on flawed reasoning and insufficient evidence, the former doesn't even think that evidence, reason, and truth exist, which is far, far crazier.

With a fundamentalist, you have religious indoctrination, wishful thinking, and vanishingly low standards of evidence to contend with.
With a relativist, you're dealing with someone whose disconnect with reality goes so deep, that they may well argue that there is no such thing as reality or truth.

The fact of the matter is that while in some cases there may be multiple truths, truth exists. Even if we cannot know a truth due to our flaws, the truth is still there.  All ideas are not created equal.

EDIT 3/23/17: I simplified the background, cleaned up a few blotches on the forehead area, adjusted the color/brightness of the eyes, and tweaked the overall color slightly (everything was tinged pink before). 


The Arrogance of Scientists by AmericanDreaming  Science Doesn't Know Everything by AmericanDreaming  Your Life Experience Isn't Relevant by AmericanDreaming 

See more in my Richard Dawkins folder.


I'm on YouTube.
:twitter: twitter.com/AmericnDreaming
Add a Comment:
 
:iconravenheart1984:
RavenHeart1984 Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2017  Professional Traditional Artist
epic
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2017   Writer
:D
Reply
:iconshernod9704:
Shernod9704 Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2017
I wish there was New Age Science.
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2017   Writer
We already have that with nonsense like homeopathy and astrology.
Reply
:iconshernod9704:
Shernod9704 Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2017
Ok?
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2017   Writer
Have I offended?
Reply
:iconshernod9704:
Shernod9704 Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017
No
Reply
:iconmenapia:
menapia Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2016
Pity every time I've checked one of Dawkins books out of our local library I can count on it having been vandalized beforehand  i.e. someone taking an art knife to sections they didn't like or frigging quotes from the Book of Revelations scrawled over pages or some podonach feels the need to cover a page in marker writing "GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED" or some other bull.

Found the same stuff in some of the science books Terry Pratchett wrote with Jack Cohen & Ian Stewart - pity some of it strays into being truly poetical
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2016   Writer
Sad. Book defacing is at least a step above book burning. Have to take progress where you can get it.
Reply
:iconlinkzilla:
Linkzilla Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2016
...My grandmother is one of the "I'm not religious; I'm Spiritual," types...I enjoy frequently talking to her on the phone; about school...work...daily life...friends...politics...But I just get tired all over when it comes to her talking about "Spirituality."
Mainly because I realized something when it came to how she talked...and how the "religious" types did...

...There's no difference.

If there is one to beheld, it is purely superficial, and thereby trivial. Of the two Grandmothers that I have, she is actually the only one that I like...And that's perhaps what disappoints me the most about her...While her flaw in needing to believe in something varies very little from the other type...Her personality is in stark contrast with their like...
She actually believes in Fairness...
That the Poor need to be helped, instead of Bullied...
That kindness and decency toward your fellow man should be a Goal; not an obligation.
She even likes Obama...and thinks that the Other-Side is full of corruption.

Her personality, is so logical and rational that...I have to FIGHT myself to not ask her that one simple question...
"Why do you NEED Spirituality?"

Part of me knows she's not there yet...When I mentioned the Republicans being corrupt, as she puts it, their behavior is "Hypocritical and Ungodly." Keeping a track record of their actions corresponded against their belief system, I would say that..."They actually are the 'Godly-Ones', representing his attitude and values rather accurately. It's you who actually contrast with such beliefs." In fact; her ways are almost Antithetical to such systems.

But it's not my place to say these things to her. She's a 70 year old woman...and I have little to no doubt that what keeps her going day and night, is the comfort she gets from believing that one day, maybe sooner than I'd like...she'll one day see her Daughter (my Mother) again.
And for me to rob her of that would make me cruel...
Reply
Hidden by Commenter
:iconlinkzilla:
Linkzilla Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2016
Wow...you REALLY misread that.
I am going to put this as bluntly as I can.

I...Am NOT...a Republican. That "Jab" at Obama, wasn't a Jab at him at all. The reason I brought it up, was because - in my experience - typically Religious people - like my grandmother is - HATE Obama, for being quote "A Muslim-Born Socialist." because they believe he's somehow, the "Anti-Christ."
HOWEVER, that's what surprises me about my Grandmother - because for once, I have a Spiritual person who doesn't buy-in to the Propaganda and Hate-Speech of the Republican Party.

Most of the Republican Party wants to DEFUND public Welfare programs - like food-stamps, Social Security, Planned Parenthood, and they're all against Nation-Wide Medical Care. My grandmother is against all those things; not just because she's currently collection Social Security - but more due to the fact that she genuinely wants to help her fellow man.

My point is...She's about as Anti-Republican as it can be; and she's the only breath of fresh-air in my entire family. But it's not even about politics here. This about what she Believes...Her personal values are in stark contrast with the Republicans...But the Republicans are all Spiritual and Religious. She says that they are "Phonies" who don't actually believe in God. Except Historically (and according to the Bible) the way these men behave...is exactly how their GOD wants them to. The Abominable Actions that they seek to carry out, are only possible because the God they worship, and they claim to all about "Peace and Love" is in and of himself, Abominable.
And the worst part is, that MOST of the people who DO worship him - including my Grandmother - are either blissfully unaware of, or willingly ignore the Atrocities that the supposed "Holy Book" describes him doing...

I left Christianity because I realized that God was more Monstrous than Benevolent...(And I was never Republican, because I didn't like the idea of a Government who could tell people who and who did not have the right to be Happy - particularly with their sexuality.)

So, with all these things in mind - and knowing that my Grandmother feels the same way I do about a lot of issues...I still have to ask, "Why does she need to be Spiritual or Religious?" Not gonna lie; this comes from my desire to have at least ONE other member of my family that I can actually talk to about the contradictions and atrocities found THROUGHOUT the Bible. But it's also because it makes me sad whenever she talks about how God is all about "infinite Love" - when the ONLY actual text we have about him, demonstrates he is about anything BUT infinite love. And it downright makes me sick to know that she is a good and moral-minded person...yet she is among THOUSANDS across this country and this planet who believe that the sick...sadistic...brutal...torture and eventual murder of a supposedly "innocent" man...was a "Good" thing...because it allowed people of their "like-minded-ness" to escape their own accountability. It had nothing to do with Forgiveness...It was all about letting Jesus pay the fine for any sin committed, before and after...because God is literally incapable of forgiving...without bloodshed. And meanwhile, they can continue to do as they please, with the knowledge that whatever sin they commit will immediately be forgiven, and they will not have to be held accountable for them.

So here's what I don't get about your comment...
What is YOUR motivation? What do you have to gain from pointing out my "Ignorance"? - especially since you completely misread my original comment. I don't even know how you jumped to such a conclusion.
And what's even more shocking is that line at the end that reveals that YOU...are a Conservative.
So you replied to my comment - calling me ignorant, as well as many other things I hate...When as far as your knowledge told you...You and I were on the same side?

To me, it seems like the only thing that motivated you here tonight, was the chance at humiliating someone.
You came here spoiling for a fight; you want to start a flame-war here.
But I think what easily offended me the most...is that you talked to me like I was the one who believed all the things I said my Grandmother was against...Especially how you seemed to imply that I believe we should be "Bullying the Poor"...even though I'd most likely be IN the category of the Bullied.
Reply
Hidden by Commenter
:iconlinkzilla:
Linkzilla Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2016
*Sigh*
I accept your apology...Truth be told is, maybe you didn't deserve my scorn either. Maybe truth is, I was the one wanting to pick a fight. Or maybe something last night had upset me, right before I received your comment.
Or maybe I was so caught off guard that what I had used to criticize the Republicans was turned around on me, like I was somehow praising them, that I immediately went into "Attack-Mode".

Truth is...I'm tired of all the fighting myself. Tired of having to defend myself whenever a religious person calls me immoral for being a godless Atheist who wants to "corrupt" his grandmother. Or maybe I'm just overreacting with my responses, because most of my family IS Republican...and they blindly defend what they are without truly knowing what the implications of what things are.
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Feb 4, 2016   Writer
The older people get, the more close-minded and set in their ways they often become. Even if you wanted to convince such a person, it's usually impossible. I've been in many conversations with older people, and when I say something that is virtually irrefutable, but which, if accepted, would entail the abandonment of long-held beliefs, their mind just goes on lock-down. The fact that the other person is much younger than them, also gives them an easier out to simply dismiss any points you may make.

Faith is like a drug. A life-long addict will not be able to cope without the drug if they've made it to old age. Faith creates a dependency on wishful delusions and creates a need where no need should exist. People often ask me what fills my life in place of religion or god, or if I don't believe in god, what do I believe in? To me, these are nonsensical questions. People act as though without faith there's a hole in your heart (figuratively), but I believe we are born quite whole, and that faith rots away at us, creating the hole which it then fills quite nicely.
Reply
:iconalexanderabelard:
AlexanderAbelard Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2017  Hobbyist Writer
Very quotable.
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Mar 25, 2017   Writer
I thought so too.

You are Stronger than You Think by AmericanDreaming
Reply
:iconakhnaton-ii:
Akhnaton-II Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I admire this man.
Reply
:icondoolhoofd:
doolhoofd Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2015
"Say: I am real, this is real, the world is real, and nobody laughs. But say: this is a simulacrum, you are only a simulacrum, this war is a simulacrum, and everybody bursts out laughing. With a condescending and yellow laughter, or perhaps a convulsive one, as if it was a childish joke or an obscene invitation. Anything which belongs to the order of simulacrum is obscene or forbidden, similar to that which belongs to sex or death. However, our belief in reality and evidence is far more obscene. Truth is what should be laughed at. One may dream of a culture where everyone bursts into laughter when someone says: this is true, this is real."

- Jean Baudrillard, Radical Thought

ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=6…
Reply
:iconthemutantlizard:
themutantlizard Featured By Owner Aug 20, 2015
The words of a great man who speaks truth 
Reply
:iconseaxwulf:
Seaxwulf Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
So. What do you do with the "I'm not religious but spiritual" type who believes in science, discerns that there are objective truths and subjective societal conditionings and really wishes people would adopt critical thought whatever the cost while nowise determining that spirituality and scientific objectivity need to wholly cancel each-other out?

Mind you, I've always been of the opinion that relativism and cultural cowardice have become themselves objects and attributes of a new fundamentalism.

Also. Some have argued for non-reality. I do not claim to comprehend the argument, mind, but it has been made. Poorly, I would imagine.
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2014   Writer
It's certainly possible to have what we would call - for lack of a better term - spiritual experiences, without faith, religion, dogma, or any spookiness or irrationality. People of this sort are very rare, but they do exist. I wish more such individuals did exist, and in fact, I hope to one day be numbered among them. As for what I "do" with them, I simply count them as an exception to the category "spiritual but not religious." One can explore consciousness, the sense of self, and the inner experience of the mind, divorced from unjustified supernatural claims.
Reply
:iconseaxwulf:
Seaxwulf Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I ask simply because I see in the spirituality vs. science field that on both sides of the fence critical thinking goes to die. Not universally, but... colloquially, I shall euphemise.

I agree. I wish there were more seekers in this vein. It gets lonely. Myself, I am spiritual, not religious, maybe even religious if one uses the term in a context agreeably. After all, Christianity is NOT the end-all be-all to religion. Nor Judaism, or Islam.

Your perspective is refreshing, seeing as I do inhabit a grey area and often have to look at two camps which (in my less than humble opinion) polarise where polarity needn't be.

If you'll forgive me the squishiness of saying: I think you'll get what you're looking for. The human mind, to my understanding, has remarkable plasticity and an untapped power for projection. I've always thought of spiritual things in terms of equations, mental exercises, conclusions to be reached or denied based on what is empirical or what is potential. It can, I think, be very scientific if applied from the right angle. Well, whatever. That's enough of my soap-box ranting. Cheers!
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2014   Writer
:highfive:
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Sep 15, 2014   Writer
Perfectly said. :iconthumbupplz:
Reply
:icongreatkingrat88:
Greatkingrat88 Featured By Owner Sep 15, 2014
And here I looked forward to a big old row :lol:
Reply
:iconleeham991:
Leeham991 Featured By Owner Sep 15, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Relativism is what makes it that Sharia courts and no-gay, no-jew and no-white zones are set up in British cities while it's possible to go to prison for criticising islam. 

Relativism is also what makes it that psychics are officially protected under the law, and the BBC actually has a list of how to tell the difference between a real and fake one.

Relativism is also what makes it that people can sell herbs to cancer patients and claim it will cure them and the law cannot do anything about it. 
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Sep 15, 2014   Writer
I've read and heard some crazy things coming out of Britain, and also Scandinavia. :no: There's nothing wrong with being multicultural, but if an aspect of another culture is something that's tangibly and demonstrably harmful and immoral, that individual practice should not be tolerated, however loudly those perpetrating it cry bigotry.
Reply
:iconleeham991:
Leeham991 Featured By Owner Sep 15, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sweden is at the point now where muslims cannot be prosecuted for rape, but the native Swedes will physically attack you for pointing that out. 
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Sep 15, 2014   Writer
A sad state of affairs. What can be done to help reverse these policies and attitudes?
Reply
:iconleeham991:
Leeham991 Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Not much since anyone who even comments is labelled as a 'racist' or a 'bigot' 

We're at a point now where complaining about people being homophobic, sexist and racist is itself considered 'racist' if those people are giant bigots because of their 'equally valid and important' culture. 
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2014   Writer
Sadly, that's spot on, as you can see from this exchange I had with someone on another of my pictures - comments.deviantart.com/1/4566… . I have encountered people of this sort perhaps hundreds of times on the web in recent years.

According to some, being against bigotry makes you an bigot against bigots, a bigotphobe, if you will. :iconfacepalmplz:
Reply
:iconflyingwaffles14:
flyingwaffles14 Featured By Owner Aug 24, 2014
01001111 01101110 01101100 01111001 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100101 01101110 00100000 01100101 01101101 01101111 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100100 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101110 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01100110 01100101 01100011 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 00100000 01100010 01100101 00100000 01100001 01100011 01101000 01101001 01100101 01110110 01100101 01100100 00101110
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2014   Writer
Emotion has a place, but we cannot let it govern us.
Reply
:iconmauevig:
MauEvig Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Now, I consider myself spiritual but not religious, but that doesn't mean I believe in flying broomsticks and carpets. It would be cool and all, but it's not realistic. It just means I don't believe in God or am part of any one religion, but I believe all living things have a soul. Obviously there must be some truth out there somewhere, I just don't think humans have found it yet.
But you are right that not all ideas are created equal.
In the end, science will always win out.
Reply
:iconshadowmanwily:
shadowmanwily Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
So we are SUPPOSED to argue?
I have no doubt in my mind that science works, yet I do believe in a God. Apparently that is a crime.
Scientific evidence is also a big thing. We may never know how the world began if we don't time travel, which we won't be able to do for some time. We can't write off people as stupid if they do believe in something. (Save for creationists I really don't get that shit)
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2014   Writer
I disagree with your views, but I never said that was or should be a crime, nor does it necessarily mean that you're an idiot. Criminalizing thought is the domain of gods and religions.
Reply
:iconshadowmanwily:
shadowmanwily Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
"I disagree with your views, but I never said that was or should be a crime, nor does it necessarily mean that you're an idiot"
Oh I guess I mistook it.

"Criminalizing thought is the domain of gods and religions."
From the other end it could mean the assumption of absence from all science because of a different belief and encouraging hate and over-generalization.

Even though I don't hate non theist ideas and beliefs, I do hate what I'm seeing from most of them :l
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2014   Writer
There is a lot of hate on both sides, I don't think it's very productive. I've never known any problem or societal ill to be hated out of existence.
Reply
:iconzeroelements:
ZeroElements Featured By Owner Aug 14, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Yep.  Relativism is doomed to failure.
Reply
:iconblackstrike:
blackstrike Featured By Owner Aug 13, 2014  Professional Photographer
There's only one truth and it's NOT written in religious texts. To be so vain to claim that one religion has all the answers, especially today, when science is moving boundaries of knowledge in leaps and bounds, is extremely arrogant and downright retarded.
Reply
:iconnahjiri:
Nahjiri Featured By Owner Aug 13, 2014  Student Writer
How did you do that, with the person's username? 
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Aug 14, 2014   Writer
Put an @ before their username, after the first few letters a drop down appears to make a hyperlink, and the person being linked is notified as well. You can block, but you can't hide. :mwahaha:
Reply
:iconnahjiri:
Nahjiri Featured By Owner Aug 14, 2014  Student Writer
Thank you for the helpful advice.
Reply
:iconamericandreaming:
AmericanDreaming Featured By Owner Aug 14, 2014   Writer
:iconthumbupplz:
Reply
:iconsophiesawicki:
sophiesawicki Featured By Owner Aug 12, 2014
Oh yeah,,right,there  is no other "god"but Science...and it"works"only until some committee says that it doesn't.Anything that goes against the current dogmatic scientific"truths'is ridiculed,by narrow-minded jackasses such as the schmuck pictured above...and gee,long before"science works'was holy writ most"ignorant"unscientific "heathens"knew that jumping off a cliff meant falling not flying,so I say again;BLOW IT OUT OF YOUR ASS..
and gee,science not only"works"but does not like criticism as my first response to this pretentious twaddle was"hidden by owner"..
Reply
Add a Comment:
 
×




Details

Submitted on
August 11, 2014
Image Size
815 KB
Resolution
1616×998
Link
Thumb
Embed

Stats

Views
3,672 (2 today)
Favourites
124 (who?)
Comments
87
Downloads
28

Camera Data

Make
Canon
Model
Canon EOS 5D
Shutter Speed
1/320 second
Aperture
F/1.2
Focal Length
85 mm
ISO Speed
200
Date Taken
Mar 24, 2010, 5:11:44 PM
Software
Adobe Photoshop CS5 Macintosh
Sensor Size
13mm
×